This is a follow-up to the proposal post, for characters to ICly argue to Youmi, Nama, and Doro why Hathaway's proposed solution is a good idea. The winning vote was to propose the empresses marry each other, so all arguments must be in support of this solution. Arguments are due 28 February 23:59 UTC.
WHAT DO I DO?
Submit a unique argument for why the empresses should marry in the comments below. Arguments must be between 50-250 words and must be submitted as a summary of what your character would ICly say. Characters may submit arguments in a group or solo. There will be a subthread for anyone looking to group up below!
UNIQUE ARGUMENT?
This means that your argument should not be for the same reasons as anyone else. Because each submission must be a unique argument, you may only be involved in one comment, so choose carefully!
For example, if the solution was to make the Hanabiran national animal a hamster, you could not argue it should be because hamsters are cute if that was already someone's argument; you must choose a different argument, such as hamsters' propensity for chewing wood would be a boon to the logging industry.
You may choose a related topic as well; for example, hamsters being cute because they are small if someone argued that hamsters are cute because they're soft.
WHAT ARGUMENTS NEED TO BE MADE?
Nama and Youmi must be given solid reasons why their marriage will benefit each empress and empire. If you need help thinking of something they could offer each other, looking over the dossier description of each empire may help.
THE SOLUTION WAS ALREADY VOTED ON. WHY DO WE NEED ARGUMENTS?
The mods will be using an algorithm to determine how effective the solution is. What the empresses think of it and how successful it is depends on both quantity and quality of the arguments, as well as other ~secret~ factors. In other words, if only one person submits an argument (and that argument is "because I like hamsters"), the solution will fail. So get brainstorming!
I DIDN'T VOTE FOR IT, BUT I STILL WANT TO ARGUE FOR IT. CAN I?
Absolutely! Characters who decide to help the majority despite their qualms may certainly argue for it.
WHAT IF MY CHARACTER DOESN'T AGREE?
If your character wouldn't argue for the marriage solution, then they certainly don't have to! If they would actively argue against it or for a different solution, you may handwave that they did, but we are only accepting arguments for the winning solution.
Alucard, Lissa, Inuyasha, and Ginko will be submitting the following:
"My ladies,
We've no doubt that this has been a trying time for the both of you. What we have to say is a plea from our respective experiences in similar matters. If there is even a fraction of an opportunity to help bring peace to you and your people, then we will gladly do what we can to assist you.
There are many benefits that I've no doubt that my fellow foreginers have submitted to you. While we certainly agree with many of their fine points, I know that there is ultimately the most important thing that one must consider. That is your people, most of all. A nation is nothing without the people to hold it together. Right now, I am certain that they are afraid and confused, to find themselves with two regal Empresses rather than one. I beg you to not begrudge the warriors who held Empress Nama hostage, for their actions were out of uncertainty and fear for their future, a misguided action of loyalty. Bringing your people together in unity will quell some of those concerns. It is not a perfect solution, but it will no longer beg the question of who truly rules.
You both do. You both deserve to. You both deserve the chance to bring joy to your people.
Infighting and war will only bring about misery. For myself, this is why I became engaged to the noble and fair Lucina, to quell our uneasy relations with our countries. Lissa, my dear friend and who also has had experience in these matters, has watched her people's joy diminish under the pressure of war, and they lost their faith and trust in their rulers.
I encourage you both to unite as one. A marriage, should you choose to accept it, would be the beginning to strengthen yourselves and your people. I hope you don't see this as a lecture, but rather as encouragement to help your empires."
As an addendum to points already raised in the military/wedding arguments, Jin would argue for the value of a united front in the face of Weird Magic Shit™, brought on by the Youmi escort group's encounter with the forest spirit. (BONUS POINTS, HE'S A NEGOTIATOR.)
- Showing off feathers collected from the forest spirit, he'd mention that it was set off by bloodshed caused by these political disputes. Keeping the peace through unifying the kingdoms would prevent spirits and/or gods from being angered by their actions any further.
- He'd also reference the forest spirit's spell over the creatures and animals in the forest, suggesting that there could be more spirits or beings with abilities beyond the capabilities or understanding of either empress. Joining both kingdoms into one could keep dealings with unknown threats consistent. Jin would use a simplified version of events in his world* as an example: when magical beings from a strange land attempted to conquer his country and surrounding countries, warriors from every nation united to drive them off and keep all peoples safe.
- His final point, building on the second, would be that a formal joining of the kingdoms would prevent them from being turned against each other due to any outside influences. Citing events from his world** again: when, a generation later, one kingdom sought to pacify malevolent gods by basically throwing an ally under the bus, both countries were still nearly destroyed and foreign relations between the two remain fractured. Merging, moreso than allying, would keep this from being a thing.
*this is only sort of what happened, but the empresses don't need to know that **this is also only sort of what happened, and the empresses STILL don't need to know that
If anyone wants to join in on this or add something else lemme know!! :9
Laphicet will be joining in on this, since he's a spiritual being himself. But since he can't communicate with the locals, he'll be relaying his thoughts to Jin and the rest of this group.
IDK IF THESE ARE HELPFUL but he's mostly using his own experiences as an example to +1 everything...
- He'll support keeping the peace and preventing angry spirits/gods! And bring up knowledge from his own world: the spirits are affected by humans' impurities/negative emotions (in this case, the bloodshed!) and turn into mindless, raging monsters when they can't take enough of it.
- He wasn't present for the forest spirit battle, but he believes there are very likely other spirits or supernatural beings that could be both benevolent and hostile. He helped a sea clan fisherman, who thanked him and left him offerings, which leads him to believe there might be more spirits present.
Amado's gonna wanna join this argument. He was present for the spirit fight, he'd wanna add his own feather to any others that Jin is showing and relay his own experience fighting the spirit, i.e. that it was ridiculously dangerous and totally chaotic and completely avoidable. He'd wanna press the points that the forest spirit was really, really dangerous, Empress Youmi would've been in serious danger if Ophelia hadn't been there to help escort her, people were still badly hurt anyway (he would cite helping patch people up after the fight was over), and the messed up thing about it is, if there hadn't been so much fighting in the Flowerlands, they probably never would've angered the spirit in the first place. What's done is done, but they can't afford to risk angering other spirits like that by allowing the fighting to continue, it would just lead to more bloodshed from the people of both clans and the Flowerlands and at the rate it's going, total devastation of the Flowerlands themselves (citing the crops and livestock that have been badly affected by the fighting in the Flowerlands).
THANK YOU these are perfect! *^* We may have Maya Fey (a spirit medium) join this group per me chatting with Sipp so maybe you guys could work out something spirit related?? Either way im gonna compile this into a final draft tomorrow pls hold
OKAY I'M ADDING IN TWO CENTS HERE: Maya's +1ing all yall and echoing as a female spirit medium........ so they listen to the boys!!!
As a spirit medium (in training) and the future Master of the Fey Clan and the Kurain School of Channeling, Maya understands the pressure of keeping up tradition and providing a strong front for people rebelling. However, it is important for both their respective peoples and the spirits to keep war to a minimum -- it may help to pray to them for wisdom and protection, and to try to honour their land and keep it safe. The forest spirit (to her understanding) was angry at all the bloodshed and lashed out at all people, and she would note as Laphicet himself is a spirit he would understand the details, impressions, and possible feelings of other spirits -- and that he's a great source of expertise in this matter.
Spiritual balance is incredibly important for both kingdoms and for the Flowerlands to flourish and heal. Maya would even suggest trying to reach out to the spirits for guidance on how to soothe the angry rebels, suggesting that they may be able to help offer guidance. Regardless, all people are their respective people, so Maya thinks they should be doing what is best for their lands and their people, even if the people are opposed to their rule. They should be providing an example, as leaders
I hope this makes sense it is very late and I am very tired
Rhys will be arguing (alone, because nobody likes him) that Nama and Youmi could benefit each other politically.
Youmi is an experienced leader, having ruled pretty strongly on her own for a while; on the other hand, Nama seems to have a reputation as a bit of a weak leader. Nama could learn from her, and have Youmi's strong support behind the decisions she makes so nobody questions her. Youmi's support would also mean Nama could get out from under her advisors' thumbs, as she would have a strong, confident ally who wouldn't be cowed by them.
On the other hand, Youmi would benefit from Nama, too. She is young and inexperienced, but this means she could have a fresh perspective, too. The mountain clan is also much more military-minded than the sea clan, which likely means Nama has more military expertise.
Simon has read Doro's half-completed response to Nama's concern for his safety in light of the skirmishes, and since she and Doro are here, he will be arguing that the union of the empires would leave the Flowerlands bookended by powerful allies, and the Empresses now both extended family of its ruler.
This is the best way to protect it when it’s in the vulnerable position of geographically surrounded by two larger empires: give both a vested interest in its safety. Before the Empire of the Crashing Wave “appeared”, this wouldn’t have been a problem, but unless both empires are united, the Flowerlands will always be susceptible to attack by rebels angry about 'false empresses'.
Both empires covet the Flowerlands’ resources and this eliminates the tug-of-war between the three of them and the threat of a smaller territory being dominated by one empire, which would both be bad for the Flowerlands and bad for relations between the empires. Were the empires simply allies, each would still have something to gain by fighting for control of the Flowerlands.
The Flowerlands would remain an independent territory, so they don’t threaten the empires’ matriarchal values and don't lose any autonomy by Nama and Youmi's union; Doro being family of both empires’ rulers gives his lands greater security without any additional power or risk to the empresses. It also provides his people with trade opportunities as the Empresses’ citizens travel between their territories.
no this makes a LOT of sense thank you 🙏 I didn't even consider some of these!!
QUESTION (FOR YOU GUYS IG): how do we make them believe Laphicet is actually present... bc these are good points but idk if they can see or hear him, but im also canonblind so I have no idea
I WAS ACTUALLY THINKING ABOUT THIS ON THE WAY TO WORK-
He's invisible but he can still affect the environment/they can his spells. So, if they want proof that Laphicet's present, he can use magic~. He can make a little floating fire ball appear in his hand as some indication that he's there.
Also he'll +1 to offering prayers and offerings to spirits more often! Because maybe the benevolent spirits will come help them if they're in trouble? Laphicet speaking from his own experience does get strengthened from prayers/or just earnest thoughts. :')
- Jin and Amado display feathers from the spirit Youmi's entourage encountered. Amado emphasizes the danger (that would've been worse in Ophelia's absence), the many injured he helped in the aftermath, and how avoidable angering the spirit was. Both argue against risking angering other powerful spirits, citing both bloodshed and the damage done to the Flowerlands and its resources.
- Maya comes forward as a spirit medium and future master of her clan. Laphicet, "channeled" by Maya, magically manifests a floating orb of water. Maya understands the pressures of tradition and showing a strong front for the rebels, but emphasizes the importance of balance and peace to Hanabirans and spirits alike. She shares Laphicet's insight as a spirit: more spirits, both benevolent and hostile, are likely to be present. They can either be corrupted into monsters by humans' negative actions, or turned into powerful allies in times of trouble if given offerings and prayer. Maya suggests honoring and protecting their land and praying for wisdom, protection, and guidance, and that a strong show of unity between the two empresses, combined with this reverence and balance, will benefit all people and spirits.
- Jin concludes with (adapted) events from his world. When corrupted gods attacked his home, many nations united to keep the peace. But that peace was shattered when one kingdom allied itself with the corrupted gods; his home is still torn by hardship and war today. Uniting would prevent any Hanabiran nation from being pitted against another, keeping all peoples safe.
- Jin and Amado display feathers from the spirit Youmi's entourage encountered. Amado emphasizes the danger (that would've been worse in Ophelia's absence), the many injured he helped in the aftermath, and how avoidable angering the spirit was. Both argue against risking angering other powerful spirits, citing both bloodshed and the damage done to the Flowerlands and its resources.
- Maya comes forward as a spirit medium and future master of her clan. Laphicet, "channeled" by Maya, magically manifests a floating orb of water. Maya understands the pressures of tradition and showing a strong front for the rebels, but emphasizes the importance of balance and peace to Hanabirans and spirits alike. She shares Laphicet's insight as a spirit: more spirits, both benevolent and hostile, are likely to be present. They can either be corrupted into monsters by humans' negative actions, or turned into powerful allies in times of trouble if given offerings and prayer. Maya suggests honoring and protecting their land and praying for wisdom, protection, and guidance, and that a strong show of unity between the two empresses, combined with this reverence and balance, will benefit all people and spirits.
- Jin concludes with (adapted) events from his world. When corrupted gods attacked his home, many nations united to keep the peace. But that peace was shattered when one kingdom allied itself with the corrupted gods; his home is still torn by hardship and war today. Uniting would prevent any Hanabiran nation from being pitted against another, keeping all peoples safe.
THANK YOU!! and thank you for lending laphicet's aid to this!
sipp and I are laughing on discord about the special effects and laphicet being fake channelled, and jin making maya leave out that she's a spirit medium trainee to be more convincing / hit the word count limit.... it really wouldn't be kung jin without a little bit of bullshit
They have special effects so their presentation is going to be the best :')
ALSO THANK YOU I'm glad you brought this argument up yesterday in Discord, because I was like WOW SPIRITS!! I CAN TOTALLY JUMP IN ON THIS AND MAKE MY CHARACTER USEFUL.
APPEASEMENT OF / PROTECTION FROM SPIRITS (Jin, Amado, Laphicet, Maya)
- Jin and Amado display feathers from the spirit Youmi's entourage encountered. Amado emphasizes the danger (that would've been worse in Ophelia's absence), the many injured he helped in the aftermath, and how avoidable angering the spirit was. Both stress they can't afford angering other powerful spirits, citing both bloodshed and the damage done to the Flowerlands and its resources.
- Maya comes forward as a spirit medium and future master of her clan. Laphicet, "channeled" by Maya, magically manifests a floating orb of water. Maya understands the pressures of tradition and showing a strong front for rebels, but emphasizes the importance of balance and peace to Hanabirans and spirits alike. She shares Laphicet's insight as a spirit: more spirits, both benevolent and hostile, are likely to be present. They can either be corrupted into monsters by humans' negative actions, or become powerful allies in times of trouble if given offerings and prayer. Maya suggests honoring and protecting their land and praying for wisdom, protection, and guidance, and that a strong show of unity between the two empresses, combined with this reverence and balance, will benefit all people and spirits.
- Jin concludes with (adapted) events from his world. When corrupted gods attacked his home, many nations united to keep the peace, but that peace was shattered when one kingdom allied itself with the gods. His home is still torn by hardship and war today. Uniting would prevent powerful evil spirits from pitting one Hanabiran nation against another, keeping all peoples safe.
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axiology2018-02-21 06:42 pm
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